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Fighting Games Have A PC Problem

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#Fighting #Games #Problem.

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[vid_tags].

Fighting Games Have A PC Problem.

javr com.

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43 thoughts on “Fighting Games Have A PC Problem | เนื้อหาทั้งหมดเกี่ยวกับjavr comเพิ่งได้รับการอัปเดต

  1. Elsee Adrift says:

    human benchmark makes reaction times of just staring at a screen with no other distractions and simply inputting a key when the screen flashes at around 13f.
    in fighting game context, with mental stacks and trying to confirm hits or dp, 13f is the limit, 15f is pretty much where you should consider reactable or unreactable.

  2. ō ō says:

    Not enough people talking about "arcade perfect" these days. From what I can tell, PC is closer to arcade perfect, and the reduced input delay should be considered standard.

  3. Shīra says:

    There's literally no reason for PS4 input delay to be 4 frames. I don't even understand how that's possible. Game engine delay is tied to framerate, so will always be 16.67 ms as long as fighting games are capped at 60 fps (which is not ideal). Then vsync adds an extra frame of input delay (16.67 ms), which gets you a total of 2 frames (33.33 ms). The only way I can make sense of 4 "frames" of system input delay (66.67 ms) is if GGST on PS4 is actually capped at 30 fps.

  4. Hawoo Awooo says:

    I'm pretty sure I saw that SF6 supports up to at least 120fps. If fighting games finally breaks away from the 60fps lock that'll add even more variation the input delay. And if we look out how the biggest competitive games handle it they seem to gear the games towards being played at the point of diminishing returns on reducing the delay.

  5. Raxyz says:

    I don't think it's a "PC problem" as much as a "games industry changes and evolves too fast" problem, although I understand that would make a terrible title. It's kinda like when consoles included network capabilities as well. Every single game needed a tacked on multiplayer mode and it slowly resulted in a shift from dedicated servers to MMR and matchmaking, even on PC, but that wasn't a console problem per se. It was developers and publishers jumping on the trend without carefully considering all the consequences. You can have the best of both worlds with a little more of planning.

  6. Lunchables says:

    This video is a very well-made and convenient thing to send people who don't understand this. I went to an event recently where the TOs weren't aware of differences between base ps4 and pro/ps5. When I mentioned input latency as a concern, they said that you just need to clear all the bluetooth devices connected to the ps4… completely went over their heads.

    also kinda dumb but I accept base ps4 life as a ky player, I will do what I must to hit tap dust and my 25f 6k

  7. Erick Romero says:

    I understand this take, and fully accept how delay variance could be problematic for competition.

    My largest concern about this discussion would be if developers do a bizarre King Solomon solution, and force all platforms to operate with the same amount of delay by adding delay to faster platforms artificially. I'm ultimately a casual player, I don't care that much about the competitive integrity of top level play. I do care about having the best user experience I can have, and lower delay makes my subjective experience better.

    I'd prefer to sacrifice competitive integrity on PC, over having the game feel worse on my main platform of use for the sake of balance.

    To be fair, I don't think the argument you're making necessarily goes against that. I think your stated solution here would be something more along the lines of "Lets make sure we always use the same platform to run every tournament, preferably the platform the game is balanced around in terms of Reaction time". Which I can agree with.

  8. BT 11 says:

    I wouldn't call this a PC problem. It's a playstation problem if anything. So many FGs release to playstation with too much input delay regardless of the PC delay.

    The variability of PC setups makes it tricky to throttle the delay, but that's a problem for after PS delay gets fixed.

  9. I Am Enormous says:

    Great video; should also mention an important factor is when the move's animation becomes recognizable. For example: I genuinely had to practice to react to 26-30f noob killers in Tekken because the animations look much more 'natural', and even now still struggle. But in +R, I was blocking 23f overheads without even practicing because the animation becomes distinct basically instantly (and of course less moves per character = less mental stack).

  10. Rin-senpai says:

    The reaction-discussions were one of the most painful ones I've ever witnessed. I'm not gonna bother anymore xD
    I can only agree with the points you raised, even during the crossplay-beta in Strive I noticed when someone was playing from a PS4 and not PC like me. Their strategies are alot different because of what they're used to people being able to react reliable to. Seeing these 2 different metas clash was very interesting.

  11. TodosLosDeeps says:

    Removing the arbitrary HARDWARE limitations simply means that more executive decision making will need to be made about how the game should be played. I guess the only real thing to do is base future balance on player base preference. This could actually be a good thing for differentiation between games in the FGC. Do you want a game to be really fast and almost unreactable at super low input-delay pushing human reaction time? Make a game around that. You could also just enforce 3F input delay but balance around that. I actually like Strives delay based pressure as it fees very real to me.

    Basically HARDWARE shouldn’t make the decision for you when designing the game, I think all problem spaces run into this issue.

  12. ophid says:

    I feel like a big motivation for people talking about this is just how wide the range of the delay gets on some platforms. If developers could achieve a consistent 3-4 frame delay on all platforms, we would at least have a standard that doesn't feel bad if the game is balanced around it. Instead we have a wide range of delays from 1-8 frames. The sprite based games feel so crisp and responsive even at a 3f delay just because they are way more consistent and even on slower setups, you can get used to playing on 4f.

  13. Macarios Mensah says:

    This is more personal but I really don't like how counter play changes based on input delay.
    I mostly play anji on pc and my normal strategy for fujin is to always rotate my options or else my opponent reacts to it assuming they practiced the mu but when I play offline I have to shut off that part of my brain and just pick one option and do it 10 times in a row because people have to commit to an option on defense because they may not able to react in time due to the delay.
    What I don't like about this is yeah my character is better offline but it feels much more scrubby and not as natural to what it feels like I should do.

  14. Kodai Young says:

    I understand your point but it's up to the devs to balance the game correctly. What I don't understand is why the games are so delayed on Playstations and people are fine with that because I really don't feel any delay diference on FGS that I can play on both xbox and pc. I'm wating for strive to hit on xbox to see if I can feel any difference.
    Note: I'm not trying to start a console war here or bragging that xbox is better. For God's sake, please don't.

  15. Sora Mercury says:

    yeah i'm really pissed about this for years now… when i played dbfz online against a near living friend, almost every 24 frame command grab he used against me, was literally like choosing death for his character… you know how shitty the online experience was in dbfz, but on pc it was sometimes not that big of a deal, when you got a stable connection. however, playing this game offline on a great pc setup is almost like "you dare to attack me? i will delete your character for it", since you really have to cover EVERYTHING behind assists.

    – 6m? you get a blockstring reset at best, but i feel like you can even react with 5l.
    – dr? well free tech or lv3 super.
    – iad crossups? yeah you know how 2h + spark will end up…
    – superdash? same story like with iad.
    – 24 frame or slower grabs/overheads/lows? almost only usable as a bait, when covered with assists like barrier… otherwise you can lose your character or even the game.
    – the famous armball 4way mix? well… i feel like it is a 50/50 or a 4way gimmick, since the 4way options are too slow to really be considered mix.

    god damn, on a great pc setup, IF you have the reaction and really look for it, i would say even the broly 17 frame grab is somewhat reactable and you may can escape it 3 out of 10 times on pure reaction.

  16. deice says:

    The unfortunate part is, the delay comes mostly from system level, ie. graphics drivers and the input drivers (USB).

    PC just gives you the tools to use more hardware and run worse graphics, then disable the graphics optimizations that introduce delay.

    I don't see this getting solved fully. Only if console makers start to provide the tools to help make games running at similar latency to PC. But that's not their target audience, so they probably won't think it worth their money.

    Nobody is going to accept slowing down the fast platforms to be as laggy as the slowest, which would be the only way to level off the platforms.

  17. Mr.Faust3 says:

    I remember when the steam deck was coming out and so many people thought it was going to lead to fighting game tournaments being PC exclusive…. yeah that didn't happen due to the steam deck being weird

  18. wahlen says:

    I'm glad you made this video because I recently watched your older one about the issue and I wasn't completely sold about what you were saying in it. Now, though, I completely see it and it's a very interesting take honestly.

    The best thing devs can do in my mind is obviously standardize delays but, if that's not possible, the second best thing would be to make moves that are balanced around being reactable slow enough that the platform with the highest delay can deal with it and the ones that shouldn't be reactable should be fast enough so that the platform with the lowest delay can't react to it.

    I guess this sort of creates a "fuzzy zone" around 15-25 ish frames where some platforms would be able to react to a move while others wouldn't.

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